This is what the LORD says: " Stand at the crossroads and look; ask for the ancient paths, ask where the good way is, and walk in it, and you will find rest for your souls." Jeremiah 6:16
ecclesia reformata, semper reformanda
"Brethren, we must preach the doctrines; we must emphasize the doctrines; we must go back to the doctrines. I fear that the new generation does not know the doctrines as our fathers knew them."
--John Broadus (1827-1895)
With all the talk about PDC, PDL, and seeker sensitive churches, here's a blog post by Dr. Al Mohler, president of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary on the subject. Let me know what you think.
16 comments:
It should be noted that PDC/PDL is not necessarily synonomous with seeker-sensitive. They certainly can co-exist in the same church, but that is not necessarily always the case.
As usual, Dr. Mohler is on target in his assessment (assisted in large part by William Willimon in that post). Preaching to "felt needs" does not accomplish the work of the gospel, especially within an American setting. In the third world setting that Willimon references, I believe the focus should be to supply the needs, not merely preach about them.
For those interested, a good study and critique of seeker-sensitive churches is Willow Creek Seeker Services by G. A. Pritchard (Baker, 1996).
Evan,
Thanks for your comment. I agree the 2 aren't necessarily synonymous, however, I think they are based on the same philosophy...Willow creek..as you mentioned..and many other churches, though they don't refer to themselves as PDC or Willow Creek models. While I don't oppose the motive, I think methods do matter..because doctrine matters..and it matters not only how we present the gospel..but what gospel it is we proclaim. Much of what I see in these models is a watered-down, easy-believeism, and too much of a dumbed-down doctrine.
Btw...I checked out your blog..I enjoyed what I read.
Good article. Why is it, not just in the church, but in a lot of aspects of life, that we're expected to stoop to the lowest common denominator? In other words, why should the church have to get down on the world's level to attract the world to it? The purpose of the church isn't to provide a place to entertain people, nor is it to be like the world.
This "dressing down" for church is but one example. I'm thankful we're far removed from the days when women wore dresses, torturous undergarments, high heels, pearls, little hats, and white gloves, ala June Cleaver, and men wore suits, ties, and hats everywhere, ala Ward Cleaver, but there is a limit. I was walking out of a Sunday morning service a few weeks ago when I noticed a young 20-something woman (maybe even in her 30s) walking in front of me wearing a very tight, off-the-shoulder, sleeveless, hip-length sweater thing with a pair of white, calf-length tights, and white spiked heels. There was no skirt or slacks or hosiery, just the sweater thing over (just barely) the tights. I couldn't believe it. She looked like a streetwalker! For the men who are fighting impure thoughts from watching the women on the praise team, the sight of this woman would have made them cataplectic! Likewise, I see teenagers and some 20-somethings in wrinkled, faded, ripped clothing that looks like something you'd toss in the rag bag. Seriously, my "bumming around the house" clothes look better, and believe me, that's not good. If they didn't have anything nicer, I wouldn't care, but these are not kids from poor families. It's not about fashion. It's about respect -- for the Lord's house, for others, and for oneself. One can dress casually and still be modest and neat. It really isn't difficult or uncomfortable. Makes me wonder about some of these kids' parents.
I'm sorry, what were we talking about?
notastepfordsheep
Allofgrace,
You are correct that much of the Willow Creek model is weak on theology, heavy on methods. PDC/PDL can also be the same, but there is more room for doctrine in the PDC approach.
The anti-Willow Creek methodology has also been rearing its head for the last few years. It is called the Emerging Church/Emergent Church 'movement' (Emerging and Emergent leaders consider themselves to be quite different, but it is difficult for those not involved in the movement to tell the difference. In addition, they do not like to call it a movement--rather they consider it to be a conversation). This approach also sacrifices doctrine for methodology; however, the methodology is the exact opposite of Willow Creek. Rather than using personality driven, marketing techniques to attract seekers, the Emerging/Emergent movement uses a syncretistic approach of early to medieval church traditions. You see lots of candles, incense, religious artwork, etc. It sometimes appears as a blend of Greek/Eastern Orthodox, Catholic, and Eastern mysticism traditions. Unfortunately, their theology is just as amorphous as a Willow Creek approach.
I say all this to make the point that any methodology chosen can be weak on theology. There is no methodology that is immune from that possibility. Certainly, some methodologies lend themselves more to weak theology than others. In the end, I like the old Chrysler (I think) motto--Form follows function. Let's get our theology right and then work to build our methodology around it.
For more info on the Emerging/Emergent movement, see The Emerging Church by Dan Kimball (Zondervan, 2003); A New Kind of Christian (Jossey-Bass, 2001) and A Generous Orthodoxy (Zondervan, 2004) , both by Brian McLaren. For a scholarly critique of Emerging/Emergent, see Becoming Conversant with the Emerging Church by D. A. Carson (Zondervan, 2005). For a quality read on Baptist ecclesiology (theolgy of the church), see Biblical Foundations for Baptist Churches by John Hammett (Kregel, 2005).
Allofgrace, thanks for checking out the blog. Unfortunately, we are all busy and don't have time to update it often, but we are always looking for interesting ideas to discuss.
notastep,
Just curious, how was that related to the topic?
Well, it started out as a commentary on how the idea of casual dress in church (as espoused by Rick Warren, et al.) as one way of making churches more seeker-friendly has made the atmosphere in church seem less reverent (to me) and more like the world which we're called to be set apart from. I guess I got a little carried away. Sorry.
NASS
mkw wrote:
"Perhaps it's one of those "men are visual" things that I don't get."
Me either, but apparently a lot of them do struggle with it. I think the praise team has toned down a bit the past few months. I think there was a lot more "swaying" and such before, whereas this morning I noticed, other than the occasional uplifted hand, they were all standing pretty still. Any man who had a problem with this morning's line-up has a much bigger problem than the praise team! However, the men in the choir are sometimes treated to a pretty good show (according to some of the women in the choir).
"Correct me if I'm wrong, but the practice of utilizing a praise team with mikes in front of the choir began under the ministry of Dr. Whitmire, did it not?"
No, you're correct. Someone who knows (i.e. not a rumor) told me that Dr. Whitmire was told to begin utilizing a praise team in anticipation of the arrival of Dr. Gaines and Jamie Parker. He had used them years ago at Merritt Island, but I've heard he doesn't use them at GT Baptist.
"And as far as the young woman in the long sweater/tights outfit -- I didn't see her, but I've seen plenty of outfits at Bellevue and other churches that gave me pause and I definitely agree with you that there is a lot of room for improvement and discretion when it comes to modest dress as taught in Scripture."
Consider yourself fortunate! Seriously, I know we shouldn't take notice of how someone else is dressed, but we are human, and that was pushing the envelope IMO. Technically, it wasn't during the worship service, as we were walking out of the building. "Modest dress" certainly doesn't mean we have to dress like nuns. One Sunday night a few weeks ago, a teenage girl came in late and walked all the way to the front dressed in tight jeans and a short top that left a good six inches of her midriff exposed. It was almost comical (if it hadn't been in church) watching all the men watching her. As it was, it was just embarrassing.
NASS
MKW,
I'm not sure if you're addressing me, or nbbcof..she's the one who mentioned the long sweater and tights outfit. As for the praise team..I dont think I addressed them on my comment on nbccof, other than what a friend of mine who sings in the choir said to me, concerning the problem it was causing him. What I DID refer to was the fact that men are visually wired...you may not understand that..or like it..but that's the nature of it..that wasn't a problem till the fall..but unfortunately now it creates a struggle. Nor did I blame anyone else for my own sinful thoughts, when and if they occur...I think I made that point clear (perhaps you should go back and reread what I wrote). What I said was to inform my sisters in Christ the nature of things. I honestly don't pay much attention to the praise team...what I was referring to were the women who at times are sitting directly in front of me in the congregation..again..I'm not blaming anyone for my own sin...but as a man I'll tell you when a young woman is right in front of my face with tight pants or a short skirt, moving to the rhythm of the music..first off movement of any kind is naturally going to catch anyone's attention...secondly when she's moving in that manner in the above mentioned dress...it's not rocket science...if I were the only man who's mentioned these things then I'd have to take a step back and just assume it's my problem alone...but such is not the case...even some women have complained about the same things. This is also not a problem unique to our church...and BTW...I'm not a neanderthal, male chauvinist pig who hates women and despises the fact that women are on the praise team..nor do I resent the fact that said women might be attractive...I don't know how you got that impression from what I wrote..it's quite a jump. Nor am I against any and all change..despite my own preferences..I'm a big picture kind of person..I don't just look at what's going on in the changes themselves..rather what do these changes mean..what is their purpose, and where will they lead down the road. As for the music..I have no problem saying that many of the new praise choruses are not only not very skillful in their arrangement, but so repetitive in both music and lyric...not to mention very "me" centered and shallow..that it's almost mind numbing...but I felt that way about it long before the current leadership. Change is sometimes good...but change for change's sake...or for someone to put their own personal "stamp" on a church is not wise. I don't know if that's the intent in this case..so I make no assumptions in that regard. What does concern me is current trends in the SBC and evangelicalsm at large. There's a general "dumbing down" of doctrine taking place..and it's showing up in much of the worship music...not the only place ...but it's one. I still believe that this dumbing down is part and parcel of the seeker sensitive movement. As for matters of dress being individual...i agree to a point...but since the Bible isn't neutral on the issue..as you pointed out..neither should we be.."autonomy" is ok to a point..but let's be mindful of what scripture tells us...Rom. 14:6-8..just after Paul addresses the issue of Christian liberty and responsibility to a brother's weaknesses...he says this in verse 7: "For none of us lives to himself alone and none of dies to himself alone." In other words...nothing we do takes place in a bubble. If that were true, we could all justify..or at least rationalize anything. Then we end up like Israel in the time of the judges: Judges 17:6 "In those days there was no king in Israel; every man did what was right in his own eyes." I hope this clarifies where I stand somewhat better. Thanks for your comment and your concerns. Blessings.
For those who are itnerested, Mary Mohler (Al Mohler's, pres. of Southern Seminary, wife) wrote a booklet called "Modeling Modesty." It is available online at http://www.sbts.edu/pdf/modesty.pdf. You can also probably order multiple print copies of it from Southern Seminary (www.sbts.edu).
James Sundquist, Director of Rock Salt Publishing, has asked that I post this for him. I am not necessarily endorsing everything in it nor am I responsible for its contents. Responsibility for the statements and opinions herein are his and his alone.
PURPOSE-DRIVEN TENNESSEE BAPTIST CONVENTION AT BELLEVUE BAPTIST: RICK WARREN COLLABORATORS
&
RESPONSE TO BELLEVUE BAPIST CHURCH DEACON DERRICK CALCOTE'S CHARGES OF SLANDER
November 6, 2006
A Special Report
by James Sundquist
Director
Rock Salt Publishing
Website
Email: rock.salt@verizon.net
On September 24, 2006, Steve Gaines, Pastor of Bellevue Baptist Church told his congregation that he is not Purpose-Driven and created the impression that he has distanced himself from Rick Warren's teachings, having indicated that he never even read his books. Is it true that he has not formed alliances with Rick Warren leaders?
This report is also a public response to one of the deacons at Bellevue Baptist Church, Derrick Calcote, who accused me of slandering Steve Gaines and other leaders at Bellevue Baptist Church. This report is also being sent to the deacons at Bellevue Baptist Church. To date I have received no substantiation of Mr. Calcote's charges, so am biblically mandated to mark him before all of Bellevue Baptist Church and the church at large.
Here are Deacon Derrick's charges against James Sundquist:
From: Derrick Calcote
To: James Sundquist
Subject: Re: Commentary on Bellevue Baptist Church September 24 Meeting and upcoming Truth Seeker Meeting
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 20:21:21 -0500
I'm not referring to Rick Warren. I'm referring to Dr. Gaines, Chuck Taylor, Harry Smith, and Chip Freeman.
You have publicly slandered each of these men without in any way shape or form first seeking to address whatever issues you have against them with them first as is required of you by Matthew 18.
For that I call you to repentance before our Lord and for you to apologize to these men for your actions.
Furthermore for your information, you may or may not be interested to know that our former pastor, Dr. Adrian Rogers took our church through "The Purpose Driven Life." Dr. Rogers also took the staff through "The Purpose Driven Church." Dr. Gaines has not even read either of these books.
Also it was under our former pastor, Dr. Adrian Rogers that we started taking personality tests and spiritual gifts tests. One wonders why you did not and do not choose to attack Dr. Rogers for these things, but see fit to attack our current pastor.
For the record I have neither intimidated you or attacked you in any way.
In love I am calling you to repentance, and therefore a closer walk with Christ.
Sincerely,
Derrick Calcote
-----Original Message ----
From: James Sundquist
To: Derrick Calcote
Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 6:55 PM
Subject: Re: Commentary on Bellevue Baptist Church September 24 Meeting and upcoming Truth Seeker Meeting
Dear Derrick,
I fear the Lord and believe in the absolute authority of Scripture that tells us that bearing false witness against a brother is an abomination to the Lord. Therefore, if you are going to accuse me of slandering Rick Warren or anyone else to whom you are referring, you are required to document it and prove it. There is nothing in your response that contains any such evidence. What is contained, however, is the same retaliation and intimidation that I have observed going on at Bellevue Baptist Church by some of its leaders and certainly what Rick Warren's training has produced in a host of churches throughout the world. So your response is not even surprising. When right confronts wrong, and wrong does not repent, wrong always retaliates, exactly what you have done. So if you are so upset about "attacking" a brother in Christ, then why are you attacking me?
The difference between me and the rest of your congregation that you can intimidate or silence, is that I can hear their cries and bring them to the ears of Christian radio stations, networks, and a number of discernment journals throughout the world. And indeed they will be hearing about it.
Finally, I am astonished that you would stumble some of the "least of these my children" at your church by having new members take personality temperament divination tests which were inspired by demons and humanist psychologists, and compound your sin by telling me that I am the one who must repent!
Sincerely in Christ,
James Sundquist
Director
Rock Salt Publishing
FACTS:
In 2004, Steve Gaines was elected president of the 2005 Southern Baptist Pastors' Conference, and was the keynote speaker at the SBC annual meeting in Nashville, Tennessee.
Source: Wikipedia article.
And who were some of the Rick Warren collaborators that were featured speakers? For complete list of speakers see this Florida Baptist Witness article.
Mac Brunson:
And what you should know about this leading Southern Baptist pastor at First Baptist Church in Dallas, TX, at the time of this conference that proves he is a Warren PDC collaborator:
Then they came after a lady who was an elder lady in the faith who had been with the First Baptist Church of Dallas, Texas since 1956 by shouting her down with spiritual euthanasia and aggressive mean-spirited behavior, and the intimidation of seven attorneys, because she opposed them turning their landmark Criswell Center into a Purpose Driven entertainment center. But I did not speak up because I was not a widow.
Confirmed by the testimony of Betty Erwin on Southwest Radio Church archived broadcast from March 1, 2005.
And by 11/07/04, 11/11/04, 11/24/04, 1/6/05 letters by Betty Erwin to Mr. & Mrs. Brunson and another former pastor at Dallas First Baptist Church, and telephone interview March 2005.
Source: James Sundquist, Rick Warren's Global Peace Plan vs. Scriptural Teachings on Peace, Bible Belt Publishing, Southwest Radio, pp. 11-12, 2006.
Jerry Vines:
Endorsed Steven Gaines' book. Pastor of First Baptist Church, Jacksonville, FL at the time of this conference which is a Purpose Driven Church. Jacksonville Baptist is PDC. In fact it is the current pastor there, Mac Brunson, who destroyed that elderly lady at First Baptist Church Dallas when he was there... see Spiritual Euthanasia article: James Sundquist, Rick Warren's Global Peace Plan vs. Scriptural Teachings on Peace, Bible Belt Publishing, Southwest Radio, pp. 11-12, 2006.
Also see speaker list.
See also: This article.
Re Jerry Vines: See this.
Dr. Roy Fish:
Professor at Southwest Baptist Theological Seminary which produced Rick Warren. He is also one of the leaders at the Scarborough Institute with Professor Daniel Morgan at this Seminary, who accused James Sundquist and Paul Proctor of slander against Rick Warren, yet to date has produced no evidence to document it. He was defended by Paige Patterson, the President of this seminary who took no action against this professor but simply attacked me (James Sundquist). Upon request, I will supply the letters exchanged between me and Daniel Morgan and Paige Patterson.
Johnny Hunt:
Another Purpose Driven Pastor who also spoke at the National Pastors Conference in Summer of 2006 where Rick Warren was the keynote speaker.
Lifeway Books:
Ben Garner, Editor in Chief for Lifeway will be a featured speaker at Tennessee Baptist Convention at Bellevue Baptist Church, hosted by Steve Gaines. Lifeway is the distributor of Steve Gaines' book Morning Manna and of course Rick Warren's Purpose Driven Life book. Lifeway joins Harvest House (who published a book attacking those who criticized Rick Warren's teachings), Zondervan, Thomas Nelson, and Agape Press publishers who all are distributors and/or publishers for Rick Warren's propaganda machine. For a list of New Age/Contemplative authors distributed by Lifeway Books go here.
Now let's see what Lifeway Books has to say about any book that would oppose the teachings of RickWarren:
Jim Shull's letter to Nena Jones that Lifeway will not carry Pastor Bob DeWaay's new book REDEFINING CHRISTIANITY because it challenges the teachings of Rick Warren.
Here is his quote:
From: Jim Shull
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 3:33 PM
Subject: Fw: Contact Form: Books
Dear Nena,
Thank you for your email of September 16, asking why LifeWay Christian Stores do not carry Redefining Christianity by Bob DeWaay. I am pleased to respond.
The main reason we do not carry this book is that it attacks The Purpose Driven Life by Rick Warren....
Jim Shull
LifeWay Christian Stores
Proof of all of Rick Warren books sold by Lifeway...(note no books opposing him):
Lifeway Christian Stores
(Also note that Southern Baptist President Promotes Lifeway Books at his church's website.)
Paige Patterson:
President of Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary which produced and promotes Rick Warren endorsed Steve Gaines' book, Morning Manna, and attacked me for demanding proof from one of his professors, Daniel Morgan, that he had any evidence that I had slandered Rick Warren. He also attacked me for confronting him and his seminary for promoting Rick Warren teachings.
Junior Hill:
Endorsed Steve Gaines' book. His own church promotes Warren and he speaks at conferences with Rick Warren.
WDJC-FM Radio:
WDJC-FM Radio read daily from Steven Gaines' book Morning Manna. WDJC is owned by Don Crawford, Crawford Broadcasting Network, who told Dr. Noah Hutchings, President of Southwest Radio that if he ever said anything against Rick Warren that his national radio show, Watchman on the Wall, would be removed from KBRT in Southern California. I invite you to call Don Crawford up directly to ask him if Masons are false teachers.
Gary Smalley:
He is one of the leaders in Rick Warren's Global Peace Plan and Purpose-Driven strategy, having hostedhis training at Warren's own church, Saddleback, and has recently twice done conferences at Bellevue Baptist Church both before and during the tenure of Steve Gaines. Remember, as pastor he approves who speaks there!
The President of the Southern Baptist Convention features Rick Warren as a keynote speaker and his own church is Purpose Driven and requires personality temperament Discovery 301 covenants of its members. And Steve Gaines would have us believe that the emperor has clothes of being non-purpose driven or that he has not formed any unholy alliances with those Southern Baptist leaders (and others) who are purpose driven. For complete documentation on the pagan and occultic foundation of Gary Smalley's teachings, see or request James Sundquist's Commentary on Steve Gaines' September 24, 2006 Meeting at Bellevue Baptist Church.
Tennessee Baptist Convention 2006:
Will be hosted by Steve Gaines at Bellevue Baptist Church.
From Rick Warren's Pastors.com website:
Tennessee Valley Community Church: Moving from infrastructure to inspiration by Purpose Driven Staff.
"After attending a Saddleback conference in 1998, he and his wife knew they were called to reach the "de-churched" people of Tennessee, those who felt left out of the "Sunday-go-to-meeting" mold.
"In 2000, they became church planters for the Tennessee Baptist Convention."
Source: Pastors.com article.
Frank S. Page:
Current President of the Southern Baptist Church whose own church (First Baptist Church of Taylors in South Carolina) requires the Discovery 301 Class equivalent; DISC Personality Profile of members which Rick Warren launched which contains personality temperament divination is still being given to new members of Bellevue Baptist Church under Steve Gaines' watch. He also hosts Alcoholics Anonymous at his church.
Here is proof that Frank Page promotes Personality Temperament Divination at his church.
Scroll down to:
Step Three
Discovering Your Place
"PLACE is a process of self-discovery that can help equip you as you seek to find God's purpose and plan for your life and your PLACE of service in the Body of Christ. You will discover your personality based on the DISC model, identify your spiritual gifts, find the most effective environment in which you can serve, identify your passion for ministries and people, and understand how your past experiences have prepared you for ministry. This study will benefit those who are new to ministry at TFBC as well as those who are re-evaluating their place in ministry."
Also see: This page.
DISC is the core of Ken Blanchard's training who is a major Global Partner to Rick Warren.
For my analysis on DISC which greatly overlaps my Chapter 11 on Personality Profiling of SHAPE in Warren's program, see DISC.
Personality Profiling:
See this.
The Four Step Program on Taylors First Baptist Church is identical to Rick Warren's four bases in his Baseball Diamond (Step 3 is the Personality Profile).
According to the New Republic, Frank Page also presented himself as Ashley Smith's Pastor.
Source.
Ashley Smith has become a poster child for Rick Warren's Purpose Driven Life book and Zondervan publishes both Warren's book and Ashley Smith's book. Frank Page then endorsed her with the following quote:
"May I recommend to you Ashley Smith as an extraordinary young lady who will present a powerful message to your people. She is a living example of someone transformed by God. She incorporates in her testimony the truth about how God took an ordinary person who struggles like so many and used her in an extraordinary way to save lives and to accomplish His purpose. Please give careful attention to this young lady's story about a life transformed, used by God, and touching lives across our country. I have known her since she was a child. I have seen her walk through many struggles. I have seen a young lady come out on the other side of struggle, tragedy, and pain to be a person whose number one desire is to bring glory to our Lord Jesus Christ!"
Dr. Frank S. Page, Senior Pastor
Taylors First Baptist Church; Taylors, South Carolina
For those of you who don't know that the hostage taker became a Muslim or still think questioning Ashley Smith or Dr. Frank S. Page's endorsement of her, I invite you read the following most illuminating articles by Paul Proctor:
The Purpose Driven Hostage
Voices
A Story of Two Redemptions?
Baptist and Reflector:
This is the the Tennessee Baptist Convention's journal for Tennessee Southern Baptists and SB churches. It is supposed to be a news journal... and should therefore be balanced in presenting both sides of the story without partiality or spin. Yet it is effectively another mouthpiece for Rick Warren's Purpose-Driven agenda and programs. Historically it has run articles promoting Rick Warren.
But note that there is not one single article in it which challenges or refutes Rick Warren's teachings as unbiblical. And note further that there is not a single article defending, let alone even presenting the opposition's point of view at Bellevue Baptist in its current crisis. Yet its Editor Lonnie Wilkey is a featured speaker at this Tennessee Baptist Convention at Bellevue Baptist Church in November of 2006 and has not responded to my inquiries. It is a legitimate question to ask him what his agenda is!
Henry Blackaby:
Bellevue Baptist Church conducted classes on Henry Blackaby's book.
Blackaby/Warren connection. Here is the proof.
(Search for Blackaby on the site which is a Warren site.)
See also.
And this.
Richard Fisher held a seminar exposing the mysticism of Henry Blackaby at a PFO 2004 workshop.
Rev. G. Richard Fisher
Experiencing God or Experiencing Mysticism?
Charismatics are not alone in undermining the sufficiency of Scripture. Those who hail from a fundamental or conservative background may also find themselves exposed to teaching that causes them to drift from the safe mooring of Scripture. One of the leading exponents of non-Charismatic subjectivism is Southern Baptist Henry Blackaby and his hugely successful Experiencing God publications. This workshop will survey and respond to the mystical and extrabiblical leanings popularized by Blackaby in his best-selling volumes.
Source.
Also see Gary Gilley's report on Blackaby.
And this.
John Ortberg:
He was not a speaker at Bellevue Baptist, but his book is in its library. Even Southern Baptist leader Richard Land exposed and opposed him.
And here is the letter to President Bush signed by John Ortberg.
Add to this that Jim Wallis spoke at John Ortberg's church.
You should also know that John Ortberg, former Willowcreek teaching pastor, a recent speaker at Warren's Global Peace Conference at Saddleback Church and one of his collaborators, has been spearheading a campaign with Jim Wallis, Editor of Sojourner Magazine, and bestselling author of "God's Politics: Why the Right Gets It Wrong," to carve up the Land of Israel to create a Palestinian State. Lighthouse Trails has extensive exposes on both Jim Wallis and John Ortberg.
Larry Simmons, Chairman, Committee on Audits, Associate Pastor, First Baptist Church in Paris, TN is presently conducting Rick Warren's CLASS, is a featured speaker at the Tennessee Baptist Convention.
The following Southern Baptist Churches are currently conducting Rick Warren's teachings and programs in Tennessee and are listed on Rick Warren's website:
Broadmoor Baptist Church, Corryton Baptist Church in Corryton, Crossroads Community Church in Newport. There still remains a host of Southern Baptist churches in Tennessee which directly conduct Rick Warren's teachings and books or are simply running with his philosophy which I have not listed. I also emailed a large number of the Southern Baptist Churches in Tennessee inquiring and sharing with them about Rick Warren's teachings. Not one single pastor replied!!!
CONCLUSION
With all of these associations and mutual promotion of Rick Warren dogma and programs, it remains inconceivable that Steven Gaines would now attempt to distance himself from any affiliation with Rick Warren promoters and leaders or distance himself from any guilt as a collaborator with them. Steven Gaines speaks at Southern Baptist Conventions which promote Rick Warren. He invites them to speak at his own church. He secures their endorsements. Yet still maintains his innocence regarding Rick Warren. So, one can only invoke this Scripture:
"If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into [your] house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds." 2 John 1:10-11
For a more lighthearted look at the PD movement see The Sacred Sandwich. Be sure to check out the "Gallery of Dubious Photojournalism," the link to which is about halfway down that page. If you don't laugh at something you find there, then I'm afraid there's no hope for you!
NASS
nbbcof,
I appreciate the post. I've read Mr. Sundquist's articles. I have to say, though he hits on some important points, I think he loses some credibility by coming across as a conspiracy buff, and being a little too end times obsessed. While I would agree, by all indications coming from SBC publications etc, that Mr. Warren will be defended by the powers that be in the SBC...or at least by it's publishing arm, I'm not sure of all the connections that Mr. Sundquist asserts are true..they may be. I think he's pretty much right on as far as the underlying influences of PDC, and the "New Agey" aura about it. My biggest problem with it, PDC that is, is the eisegetical approach that Mr. Warren takes in giving Biblical support to his thesis. It's quite a stretch, as evidenced by the use of 15 translations of the scriptures, including loose paraphrases, not to mention the use of "out of context" passages, and partial verses in some cases. Not only that, but what gospel can be found in it...is easy-believism at it's worst...which is no gospel at all. His "tool box" for transitioning a church...I'm sorry, but it smacks of marxist techniques..in fact I can say with all honesty, when I first read that article about transitioning..that's the first thought that came to my mind. Personally, anytime I hear words like "paradigm", "life changing", "perpetual revival", ascribed to a book someone wrote...it becomes suspect to me off the bat. It's Christianity-lite, for lightweight Christians. Seems no one wants to hear about doctrine anymore..many will swallow anything, as long as it feels good going down.
Here's a link to what I think are some very fair and balanced articles concerning the PD/seeker-sensitive/church growth movements. Scroll down to "Files on the Purpose Driven Life and Church".
Link
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